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Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

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Michael Yandow
Regular Collector

Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

We're using SP4.5 SP10 (no laughing please).

While we've set the appropriate copy fields to copy a custom workgroup reference field on the SC, when we use the "Create Incident - copy values from active item" system action, this custom field is not copying to it's counterpart on the Incident.

We've confirmed that everything about the two custom fields on the source (SC) and the target (IN) are the same.

Any ideas??

Thanks in advance.
15 REPLIES
George M. Meneg
Honored Contributor

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

Hello Michael,

I don't think that this is possible. The fields you can copy between different entities are fields that are common to these entities (like Initiator/Description/Information/assignment etc).

I will explain it in the next post since I need to do gather some data.
menes fhtagn
George M. Meneg
Honored Contributor

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

Just a clarification: What is not possible with Copy fields can be made with a db rule. In your case, the rule should be like this:

When a service call is modified and this custom field is not empty, update related incidents and set the custom worgroup field on incident to the value of custom workgroup field on service call.
menes fhtagn
George M. Meneg
Honored Contributor

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

OK, now let me explain the inability to copy "custom workgroup field" from service call to incident through COPY fields.

OVSD has ITIL entities and Business Logic about them. These ITIL entities are defined as an hierarchy in OVSD.

The entities that we are interested are in the Life Cycle Service Desk hierarchy. Schematically this is like that:

Life Cycle Service Desk
..Agreement
....Service Level Agreement
..Contract
.....Maintenance contract
..Organization
..Person
..Service Structure
....Configuration Item
....Service
..Service Today
....Project
....Service Event
......Change
......Problem
....Supported Event
......Incident
......Service Call
....Work Structure
......Work Order
..Work group

Now, each entity has each fields but each entity inherits fields defined in its parent.
In the definition of Service Today there are the fields that they are common between service today entities. These fields you can copy using copy fields from one entity to another. For example, fields like "Description" or "Information" are NOT defined for Service Calls or incidents etc. They are defined for Service Today, so each child inherits it.

Now, you have enabled two custom fields, one for service calls and one for incidents. Though you have give the same name, actually is two different fields on two different entities. If you had the ability to create a custom "Service Today" field, then this field will be immediately available to ALL children of service today and it could be used through copy fields.

However "Service Today" is an "abstract" entity so you cannot define a custom field for this.
menes fhtagn
George M. Meneg
Honored Contributor

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

Just a minor correction: I wrote "Now, each entity has each fields", the correct is "Now, each entity has its fields".
menes fhtagn
Michael Yandow
Regular Collector

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

Thanks for the suggestion, George, but I'm havinga problem with the reply. It doesn't jive with what we've researched and what we've seen.

According to the Help files, it would appear that we should be able to copy to fields if they are the same or, if custom fields, have been constructed the same.

In fact, we have a custom text 40 field and custom Boolean field that are copied from SC to IN.

Is there something specific about the custom Workgroup reference field that doesn't allow it to be copied?

Thanks again.
George M. Meneg
Honored Contributor

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

Hello Michael,

Boolean or text or numbers are mere values. Entity references is another beast, actually they are pointers to value.

Anyway, I may very well been wrong and this might be a bug, but I never tried to use copy fields to copy entity references from one field to another.
menes fhtagn
George M. Meneg
Honored Contributor

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

Just a sad note, not that everything that is mentioned on OVSD help file is correct. Your case is just one example, another example where ovsd manual has errors is the approvals.
menes fhtagn
Michael Yandow
Regular Collector

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

You may be onto something, George.

I just tried the same scenario but this time with two custom Configuration Item reference fields built exactly the same. Again, the field from the SC did not copy to the IN.

I certainly wish the manual was more clear on that matter.

In any case, I might be able to offer a solution to my customers using sd_dataform. (Your suggestion of a db rule would work but not without customer issues. They would react to an empty field. Also, a db rule could only work in one direction. If the customer wanted to copy/paste an IN to a SC, a db rule to update the reference field couldn't know which SC to pull data from.)

Thanks again for the help!
George M. Meneg
Honored Contributor

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

Hello Michael,

Why don't you raise a support call on HP?
After all since the name is matching and the oid are the same, the field should be copied from one item to another.

Using copy fields you should be able to copy ANY field to any item as long as they have the same name and the same type. This should include entity references (except codes)

A custom workgroup is an entity reference to a workgroup. So when you try to paste it, if there is a field having the same name and pointing to the same entity, this should have been copied!
menes fhtagn
Michael Yandow
Regular Collector

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

Thanks, George.

I'm debating that move. Being on SP10 has made support from HP a little suspect, to say the least.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks again.
George M. Meneg
Honored Contributor
Solution

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

Hello Michael,

I have submitted the case. Let's wait for HP answer however don't hold your breath :)

-------- Case Details --------

Case title
Inquiry about entity references and copy fields
Case details
Hello,

Using copy/paste, entity references are not copied even if they are defined in Copy Fields.

According to the manual,

<>

and

<>

However, copy-paste fails to copy a field of entity reference type to a different item, even if in the target item contains fields with the same name and the same type as the source.

For example, if you define a custom workgroup field name "test1" on service calls and define a custom workgroup field "test1" on incidents, this field is not copied though that this action fulfills the requirements cited above.

To my understanding, according to the manual, a copy-paste should work as long as a field with the same name and of the same type exists in the target.

This includes all common codes and all life cycle service desk entities that are available as a custom field of entity reference type.

If this is wrong and custom fields of entity reference type cannot be copied from an item to an item of different type, then the manual should be corrected.
menes fhtagn
Peter Dent
Frequent Visitor

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

Michael, George,

I've been reading with intwerest the post here but, can you explain what you mean by an "entity reference" as opposed to straight forward text or number data?

Thanks
Michael Yandow
Regular Collector

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

"Entity reference":a reference to another item.

In this case, a "lookup" on Service Call into Workgroup.
George M. Meneg
Honored Contributor

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

Hello Michael,

I'm sorry to say but HP has no plans of fixing it. HP considers it to be ER and not a bug that must be fixed. I informed them that there is inconsistency between the manual and the real world, but I don't think that HP gives a damn. Because since the release of SP20 they tend to see "bugs" hard to be fixed as "ERs".

anyway, in the first response from HP they wrote:

<an Incident, but this will not take the custom fields into account. It
has been designed not to work like this. You can imagine a Service Call
having a 'solution' field of type text255, and an Incident having a
'solution' field of type text40. They will both be text fields with the
same name...

I hope this explains the situation to you. Please let me know if it does
and if you agree to closing this case.>>

My reply was

<<
Yes, they are both text field of the same name but *not* of same type, since
the value on the column ATR_UII_OID is different.

So copy fields function should took under consideration these things for each
attribute that is copied and try to be pasted to another item (for example for
service call to incident).

To my understanding this should be working like this:

For each copied attribute check its type

1. Not entity reference (atr_entity_to_oid=NULL)

Check for the target item if there is any attribute with the same atr_name
and of the same atr_uii_oid. If yes, check whether this is enabled for the
value of category on the current item. If yes (*), paste in any other case skip.


2. Entity reference (atr_entity_to_oid<>NULL)

Check for the target item, if there is any attribute with the same atr_name
and with the same atr_entity_to_oid. If yes (*), check whether this is enabled for
the value of category on the current item. If yes, paste in any other case
skip.

(*) If the category on the target item is null, then paste only if the
attribute is enabled for all categories.


> I hope this explains the situation to you. Please let me know if it does
> and if you agree to closing this case.

So to my understanding, either HP must alter the wording on the help file to
make your case more clear, either what I described above should be
implemented. Because according to what is written on the help file/manual what
I described above should be done!
>>

And their final reply was:

<<
Unfortunately no additional features will be implemented in Service Desk
anymore to ensure a solid starting point to migrate to the Service
Manager product. There have been Enhancement Requests logged about this
functionality, so the request already is in the system. You will be able
to find this information on our SSO portal, which can be seen as an
extension of the help files that come with Service Desk. Two examples
are:

http://openview.hp.com/ecare/getsupportdoc?docid=ITSM006410
http://openview.hp.com/ecare/getsupportdoc?docid=ITSM006331
>>
menes fhtagn
Michael Yandow
Regular Collector

Re: Copy custom Workgroup lookup field from Service call to Incident

Go ahead and close the case, George. I wasn't expecting HP to be very customer-service oriented based on past experience. (In the least they should update the manual.)

Thanks for taking the matter as far as you did. I appreciate your efforts.

Yandow
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