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Best strategy for Record Numbers already used

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PerthRM8
Member

Best strategy for Record Numbers already used

Hi,

WIn7, MS Office 2010, HPE RM8.3

Hi all,

what would be the best startegy to solve the issue of record numbers already used in TRIM for something else, e.g. 12 years ago or so, that are now desperately needed for something far more important .... But system is not letting us enter the record number that already exist in TRIM.

The numbering system (or the range of number is sued for some old record types , not used anymore, but records are there.... 80 % destroyed... but numbers are used...

What would be the State Records Office view on the idea to rename the numbers of records already destroyed (by adding another digit/letter) so that their original number can be used for this desperetaly needed for more important records.... (Off course, some references would be existing in those "old" reused numbers)

Has anyone had this issue before and how it was dealth with?

Thanks

 

 

10 REPLIES
Greg Fraser_1
HPE Expert

Re: Best startegy for Record Numbers already used

The best way is to use a different number, you can do some of the options you have listed below but in my experience using a fresh numbering pattern will cause you far fewer headaches. There are so many options you can use, there should be a number that might have a slight difference that you can use. Perhaps adding the year to differentiate 

**Any opinions expressed in this forum are my own personal opinion and should not be interpreted as an official statement on behalf of Hewlett Packard Enterprise**
PerthRM8
Member

Re: Best startegy for Record Numbers already used

Thanks,

love to do that, but, in this case, not applicable:

Two different record types were using similar numbering system pattern and they were not clashing until the one that is now extremely important record type reached the range of numbers that the other record type was using.....

The important (critical search) relationship now cannot be done because the numbers are used ....

And this important record type will need even more of those used numbers in the near future as the big projects are comming.

Obviously, 10-ish years ago nobody thought that the "freely using" the record numbers (alpha numerical combo) can produce some issues later..but...

In short, we must find the painless solution to reuse these used numbers .

Regards

Greg Fraser_1
HPE Expert

Re: Best startegy for Record Numbers already used

I don't believe there is a painless solution I'm afraid. If you need to go ahead with the original plan  then you'll have  breach records management protocol (not records manager the application, but the fundamental principals of managing records).

**Any opinions expressed in this forum are my own personal opinion and should not be interpreted as an official statement on behalf of Hewlett Packard Enterprise**
RachaelR
Collector

Re: Best startegy for Record Numbers already used

I've never come across this issue however my advice would be to chuck a dot/dash/slash 0 at the end of the numbering of all the old ones.

There is the ideal world that the SRO wants us to strive towards but you look at their approach to everything and really they just want us to do the best we can (take their State Archives for example, they are aware of the challenges we all face). All you are doing is a slight change to a record number to make your agency's overall recordskeeping more practical for everyone involved. It's not like you're blindly destroying records or altering records with malicious intent.

If you're still unsure or uncomfortable get in contact with them


~*~
Current Build: 9.0.3.353
PerthRM8
Member

Re: Best startegy for Record Numbers already used

Our Business Manager will contact SRO,

something else came up on my mind: we anyway have few hundreds of duplicate record numbers in our DB (somehow, do not ask how, both record numbers appeared when you search for one...identical document numbers , as the primary key in the database is a Uri NUMBER, ISN'T IT?) so is it possible some how "via back door" to do something about it, on tyhe database end?)

E.g. to have both numbers appears when do searching, so: old record type and a new important record type so that user can relate the new ones to whatever.

Any thoughts on this one or this would not be recommended ...?

Thanks

 

 

Re: Best startegy for Record Numbers already used

You can change the value for “last number used“ to bypass any potential clashes. That's under the record type / properties / numbering tab.
PerthRM8
Member

Re: Best startegy for Record Numbers already used

Thanks, but it does not work,

After i changed the "last number used", and when I am about to create new record and confirm the number, the system displays the message " the number XYZ556 already exist" ..

Regards

 

Rich_Kid
Esteemed Contributor

Re: Best startegy for Record Numbers already used

For the duplicate numbers, are you using 'compressed' numbers (so you have a Normal and Expanded) and where 2 records have the same number is it for both the Normal and expanded number

So you might have a record thats 123/456 (which has an expanded numebr of 123/000456)

if you have another record that 123/456 is its expanded number also 123/000456? (it could be 123/0456)

Anyway Trim shouldnt allow this as there is a constraint on the RecordID column to make it unique, so maybe something is wrong at the database level.

for you problem with numbers. Modifing the record number of existing records could cause confusion, if the old records are physical and you have barcodes. They will still reconcile in Trim as the barcode is based on the uri, but it might seem odd that the record with the label 123/456 is not 123/456/0

So if youyr going to modify a number patten do it for new records going forward. So for the record type thats important and staring to use the number previously issued change the patten to include somethign extra, either a prefix or suffix.

 

PerthRM8
Member

Re: Best strategy for Record Numbers already used

Thanks,

Funny you mentioned that (compressed numbers); yes, we are now starting to have a "Millenium BUG" ! ? "bit late but better now then never" :-) "

Can you  or someone please explain to me/us the following:

When a Third Part TRIM Application wants to create record e.g. 17-1234-01 (compressed number) the error message pops up saying that record number already exist; as expended number of the old one e.g. 1917-1234-01) and the new uncompressed number we want to create is actualy 2017-1234-01 ..???!!!

How to resolve this issue? Obviously, the searching code uses the "complex?" code in this version (similar to the issue with Services API) for searching for existing number, (It uses the compressed number i think)

Anyway, to get back to your (the latest) reply .... your comments on not to do re-use the numbers (modifying them) are valuable as we havent thought about barcodes and hard copy files that may exist which could cause confusions...so thank you.

Thanks

 

PerthRM8
Member

Re: Best strategy for Record Numbers already used

Forgot to mention that numbering patterns for these 2 record types are like:

YYYYzz-zzzz/zz
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

//Add this to "OnDomLoad" event